Jordan = Weak Tight?
Tuesday, April 18, 2006
Okay, a bit misleading. If you've read this humble corner of the blogs-and-crafts center, you know that I am anything BUT weak tight. However, in my neverending quest to kill the beast called Rio, I've adapted a bit of weak tight strategy into some preflop play. I don't even know if I'm using the term "weak tight" right. I'd expect all of you Poker Tracker junkies to have more insight, so feel free to leave a comment.
First let me start by saying that yesterday was a -$60 disaster. I placed 3rd and 2nd in two out of four Rios, therefore suffering a net loss (3rd pays $1 profit only).
I played two non-Rio SNGs (first with Iamhoff and DrewsPop, the second with DrewsPop and Hoyazo), only to lose. In the first one, it was fancy play by me that caught me right in the junk. In the second one, escalating blinds caught up to me. However, I had, what I would call, an amazing play. I held AQ and another player raises from 100 to 350. This seemed familiar so I checked the hand history and saw him do it about 4-5 hands ago with J9s. Okay, buddy, let's play. I decide to flat call, hoping for his usual continuation bet. Sure enough, I check on the Ace-high flop, and he raises about the pot size, which is fairly significant. I have about 22oo left, so I push (right after typing "watch this" to Hoyazo and DrewsPop in our Yahoo IM window. Sure enough, he calls with AJ, and...we split the pot when the board two-pairs. Doh! With that, I would've been the huge chip leader.
But I digress. The rest of my losses came at 1/2 Limit on Party, trying to earn the free $30 they offered me.
Now let's get to the weak-tight. The key to Rios is keeping out of the way of the maniacs early. It wasn't working last night, unfortunately, since either the players were generally tighter, or the shortstacks were constantly getting lucky. However, I've become weak-tight preflop, with hands that may even be considered premium in a 6-handed game.
Specifically, I've been playing AJ, AQ, and AK by merely limping in. My goal is to hit my Ace and hopefully either have a player stay in with A6 or some other crap and then call me down, or have a player not believe that I have the ace (because, after all, I just limped), or miss the flop and get the fuck out. Basically, I'm trying to remember that I shouldn't be overplaying these hands, especially when they miss the flop. The value is in hitting the flop and in getting your opponent to stick around for the ride. The other benefit, which I already touched upon, is that no one suspect big slick in this situation.
The other thing is this: I've found myself continuing weak-tight post-flop in some situations. In one, I had AQ and hit the Ace. Someone else bets out a small-ish amount, and I decide to go along for the ride. I wasn't sure if I was milking him or he was milking me, but me calls somehow kept his bets low. Something smelled wrong, but I couldn't just fold in this situation. In the end, he had AK, and I saved myself some dough by not re-raising. Folding would've been better, but realistically, most of the time, I re-raise here, which would've been a disaster.
Am I making any sense? So, that's it in a very tiny nutshell. I'd like to go into it more, but now that I began explaining, I've realized that there isn't much to tell. I give up some blinds that I could possibly take easily with a bet, but I also maximize the value of the hands when they hit. It's a balancing act, I suppose. In the end, what really interests me about it is that it is so different from my usual style. Then again, my results yesterday may suggest that I return to the old me. Oh well oh well.
That's it for today. Mama High will be in the City tonight, so poker will probably be late or not at all. Have a good one!
posted by Jordan @ 9:21 AM,
8 Comments:
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At 11:05 AM,
said...
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Hahahahahahah..."or not at all"...hahahahahaha
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At 11:59 AM,
said...
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You're in denial--everyone knows you're weak/tight, just a big wuss.
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At 12:25 PM,
said...
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Jordan, fun playing with you in that sng last night. We should do a 45-person turbo sng one of these days, as I think that structure plays more to my tight aggressive style. I don't know what it will do for your alleged weak tightness, lol.
Btw I do not support limping with AJ, AQ and AK. I could see limping with AK (though I don't think that's a winning strategy online), but I think AQ and especially AJ are hands where I really want to get the draws out early so they can't pull two pairs or something similar on me. Sometimes it's nice to limp with AK if you put one of the other limpers on AQ or AJ, but otherwise I think online it works best if you make people pay to stay in the hand with you when you have a solid Ace.
And whatever you do, don't make a practice of calling preflop raises with AJ or AT. I just think that is one of the worst strategies one can follow when you're playing with people who have knowledge of how to play holdem. I just see it all the time from people online, and it's definitely a moneyloser overall. Certainly if I'm the guy raising it is. ;) -
At 12:26 PM,
said...
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The play at the Rios sound a lot like the Dirty Dozen and even the Swansea SnGs on Titan. Basically you fold/fold/fold/fold/fold for 10 minutes, let the alpaca's take each other out, and then go in for the kill.
I've found that limping with AK or AQ isn't a bad option in these tourneys, mostly because people will show down with middle or low pair, and if you hit your A/K/Q, you can extract a LOT of chips from them.
Sorry about the losses last night though. I feel your pain. After my eight 1st/2nd place finishes in the SnGs, I got brought back to earth last night. -
At 1:26 PM,
said...
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What are these Swanseas you are talking about. I need more info Bloody P!
Bloody P hit it on the nose though, with his analysis of why the play works specifically in the Rios. It's not a play I normally make, but I (try to) play a very tight game in Rios, so I found myself actually tempted to fold AJ and AQ to an unraised pot. My concern was that if I raised (like I would normally do in a 6-person game) I could get called or re-raised with a dominating hand or a coinflip. AQ v. AK, or AJ v TT. I just don't need to take those chances in the Rios because if I lose the 100 I preflopped raised with after I miss the flop, that's 1/10 of my starting stack! Then I realized, ok, I don't want to raise, but I don't have to fold. By calling, I can risk 20 or 40 or even 60 only (first three levels) and fold if I miss or if I have reason to fear the AK.
But normally, this wouldn't be a strategy of mine, and I would NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER AGAIN EVER call a raise with AT or AJ. I'd rather stick my dick in a pencil sharpner (albeit made for one of those huge novelty pencils, for obvious wifey-Kim confirmed reasons). -
At 5:34 PM,
said...
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Jordan,
Fun times last night in that SNG. Sorry you were getting no love from the deck, & wish I could’ve jumped onto the Tilt SNG. Oh well, good times railing/chatting.
Being the uberdonkeigh newbie that I am, I play weak/tight more often than not. I’ve been burned enough on betting something like AQs preflop hard, only to get called and have the flop miss me entirely (different suit, KKx, etc.). I try not to call raises with AT-AQ, but depending on position and action I might. Post flop I have no problem cranking up the aggression, and that’s what I’ve found tends to work. As long as you don’t get cocky, you can generally get away with a lot. That’s my biggest weakness, is getting cocky after a few good wins. Take it as it comes and go with what feels right. Cop out answer, I know, but what else can you do? Unless you can guarantee that a bet of X will cause anybody with a KJ or lower to fold, Variance will always have an opportunity to show her fugly head. -
At 5:38 PM,
said...
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Hey hoff. I, too, have the cocky problem. I think it boils down to this: if you win those pots by betting people out of the hand, while you get cocky, they get suspicious. The very same play sounds good to you becasue you (I) have seen it work, but on thier end they remember it working too and assume you have junk. You will then get called. Just a thought.
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At 7:49 PM,
said...
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*If* you're going to limp with AK, AQ, or AJ, you need to play the flop aggressively to define your hand. However, your post didn't give enough information for me to really get into detail.
From which position are you limping? Stack sizes? # of players? Blinds?
At any rate, I always raise with AK. Unless it's short handed or the blinds are too high for me to wait for a better spot, I'm mucking AJ, AT, and sometimes AQ to an EP raise. Unless it's AQ suited.
If you're going to make a call with an AQ-type hand, you need to raise a continuation bet on the flop if you hit, because otherwise you're calling completely blind -- never good.
I think giving yourself the image of a maniac would lead to success in these. Try overbetting pots with a set or two pair instead of stringing people along and see what happens. Works for me in STT's. I utilize the squeeze play a lot, too. I can always get away from the hand if need be, but I'll seldom do it with a hand I wouldn't want called.
