Fact or Myth: Online Poker Cheating Software
Monday, February 06, 2006
I need your help on this one folks. There are a lot of you out there who know more than me, so put in your two cents.
Roose sent me an email a week or two ago. It had a link to a site that sold software that you could use to see your opponent's cards when playing online poker. I wish I still had the link, but I looked at the site for about 9 seconds before I closed it.
I dismissed it immediately as bullshit. It may have been possible at some point, but nowadays, aren't these big poker sites able to fix bugs that allow programs like that to work? And if you buy the program and it doesn't work, do you think that the cheating software customer service is going to give you a discount? If you want to sue them, because they are probably out of the country.
As I said to Roose, If you think that the program truly works, then buy it! You'd be a fool not to! But I don't believe that such programs are possible. And if they are, god help us all!
Opinions? Has anyone heard of this stuff?
posted by Jordan @ 5:55 PM,
19 Comments:
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At 6:24 PM,
said...
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If you could see your opponents cards, do you think you would sell that program, oh you know, EVER? I don't think so.
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At 6:37 PM,
said...
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You beat me to the punch Boobie.. No way you sell that.. I've even seen it on Ebay... amazing.
If it sounds too good to be true... then it is too good to be true. -
At 6:47 PM,
said...
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Not smart enough to know if they can or can not. Do know that several sites (Party, Poker Stars, and others) have gone out of their way to counter anyone with those types of programs on THEIR computers and have taken public action against such players. They (the sites) have published on their sites against such programs.
Like I said, I'm not smart enough about the stuff, but I will listen to a site proclaiming against a software program.
Additionally, I have read some of the remarks in forums by those USING the programs and they were some worried about getting caught; 1/with the program on their computer and 2/using them.
Stay honest, its more fun losing that way. -
At 7:58 PM,
said...
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I don't rule out the possibility of something like that exists. I would have to agree with the others if something like that did exist why would you sell it?? I have a theory or two.
Coming from a MMROPG gaming backround where cheater programs do exist and where online gaming companies deny that they existed till just about everyone in the game was using them.
I would be more afraid of online collusion more than anything. -
At 8:02 PM,
said...
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I should probably make something clear, even though I'm sure most of you don't need me to say this. I would not buy any program like this. Hell, I'm too cheap to buy PokerTracker (although I did get it for free from PSO). Besides, I love the game, and I wouldn't want to ruin its purity with such bullshit.
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At 12:17 AM,
said...
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What most of these programs refer to is that you can see the opponents cards once the hand is over and the cards are mucked. Just like PokerAce HUD (great program) does by importing hand histories on the fly. They just try to deceive people by giving the impression that you can see the opponents hands while still in play. If you could see peoples hand you could make millions from it. All of them are just a scam, I know people who have brought the programs, and not been able to get a refund.
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At 12:43 AM,
said...
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As someone who has written software of many types (but no poker software yet) for 25 years, I can say with some confidence that it would be _possible_ for some spy software to do this if the complete hand information was actually sent to the client programs of all the players all the time and was sent in an easily deciphered format.
Given the value to the companies running the servers, you can safely bet that they did not hire brain-dead software designers who would do either of those. Only the information necessary to display the hand as it is played would be sent. The information that is sent to the client during the hand, even if it is safe to display, is certainly encrypted pretty heavily in transit. Getting it before the client makes it available on screen or in the hand history would be extremely hard. Encryption of the communication channels would be necessary to prevent spying on or spoofing the clients.
I would not be surprised to find that poker client software actually has as good as or better security as any of the banking software consumers use.
dazza is almost certainly correct that these programs are nothing more than HUD type programs being sold as more than that. -
At 8:06 AM,
said...
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I think another thing some of these programs (particularly the ones Ten Mile is talking about that the sites are on the active warpath about) may do is send the live card information of each user of the program and send it back to each other user in the spy network--effectively allowing information collusion. In the hands of a decent player, this information over time is of course mutually beneficial, at least where you're at a table with other players on the network (I presume the network tells you where to find others.) Just imagine if you were to sit a table where five players could see each other's cards and five could not.
Even if you were a slimeball willing to cheat (and Jordan, as a fellow lawyer and officer of the court, I know you're not), it is pretty easy to be caught with this crap: the site can find you out in three ways--esoteric mining of your betting patterns for suspicious activity (nearly impossible with this type of passive collusion), scanning your hard drive from the site clientware (subject to simple countermeasures by any half-decent writer of the spyware) or--much easier for the site--joining the network and finding you directly. Thus, if they are advertising, the sites probably know about them already and joining would be pretty moronic. Oh, I think Ten Mile is right, they will seize your account for this shit.
As for grabbing the hands of other players without their cooperation, I think the sites generally only send each client hand inforamtion for the hand it's in, making direct view impossible. -
At 8:33 AM,
said...
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The claims of the software seems to prey on the weak players that are losing. I ran across an interesting article a while ago on the subject.
http://www.pocketfives.com/5AC54A09-22BF-4066-B55E-83D1546FC140.aspx -
At 8:46 AM,
said...
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First of all...I want to say that I love reading your Blog....
I was reading someone's Blog or site, and they claimed to purchase one of these programs. They said it was total BS.... The program claimed to let you see your opponents hole cards, but after some investigationa and reading some fine print this person realized that the program claimed to "provide you with so much info that it would be like you knew your opponents hole cards."
Hope this helps. However, i definately would buy it if I thought it worked... -
At 10:49 AM,
said...
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I can think about the cheaters. My mind is on DADIII. Can't wait!!
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At 2:17 PM,
said...
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Well,
I guess all has been said already, but here's my 0.02$ anyway:
1. In theory you would need to have access to full infos about the hands in real-time to accomplish such a running program - I doubt that a software which is being updated and tested all the time will have such an inferior structure. My guess about the inner workings of most poker softwares is this: the client only gets his hole card + the community card infos at any given time. If there's a showdown then and only then will the other hand information be transmitted. If there's encryption involved is unsure IMO, but it's likely
2. Even if there was a loophole, why would anyone want to sell it and risk exposure and share your advantage with other players? Especially if you're selling the software for some bucks?!
3. I guess there's no doubt that all the poker rooms have regular revisions and/or live controls of all hands...not only to analyze trends (i.e. most rake was generated in $5/$10 Shorthanded NL, wait list is x, all tables full -> open more of these tables immediatly), but to flag all non-standard occurences (i.e. player x has played x hands and won ALL of them)...
So I guess it's safe to assume that this is a standard internet scam getting the quick buck of some (probably losing) poker players...(standard hit and run?!)... -
At 3:46 AM,
said...
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Well there r no Poker Cheating Sofware but there is a Software called Calculatem Pro which helps u all if the cards is right for you so try it and send ur problems to goody_rk@yahoo.com
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At 4:23 PM,
said...
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It wouldn't be a bit suprised if some of the on-line poker room sites aren't marketing this software themsevles, knowing them to be "less than effective". I think it would be ironic that the online casino's were taking money from the cheaters in such a manner, After all some one stated that they have rooms full of programmers updating their sites all the time. They do this to make a profit, so why not make alittle on the side from prospective cheats?
Just a thought. -
At 12:37 AM,
said...
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Twelve days ago I bought a two programs. They claimed that one let you see other players cards and the other let you change your hold cards to whatever you wanted. Since then I have made just over $47,000.00 online. The programs do work. You can say what you want and call me whatever names you wish, but I really dont care. I know for a fact that these sites have players that they pay to play in money games and tourneys and these players have the same information that these programs give me. It puts me on an even playing field with the sites.
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At 12:46 PM,
Jordan said...
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To the last anonymous poster, where did you get the programs from and what sites did you use them at?
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At 12:32 AM,
said...
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from mv
i dont know either about cheats programs or whatever. but, i have had a lot of experience playing live tournaments. and when you get pocket AA and move in against a bigger stack with AK you pretty much start counting your pot right then as they can only flush you or straight you, or flop trips. all of these possibilities are very long odds and just dont happen nearly as often live as they do online in my experience. i suckout once in a while but i have been bad beat an unreal number of times. at pokerstars. anyway im about ready to give up on online poker i am winning live and loosing online so whatever it is it isnt profitable to me. eccept i do get a very goor read live after playing online that is one good effect that i have noticed. just food for thought.
gl to all MV -
At 1:45 AM,
said...
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HighOnPoker asked where I got the software and what sites I used it on. I will tell you that I got the software through dtdistributing.com and I have used the software on three separate sites, but I will not say which sites they are.
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At 2:05 AM,
said...
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I love the fact that Jordan doesnt want to ruin the Purity of the game with such bullshit. If you think that online poker sites are pure, you have a lot to learn. The so-called RNG (random number generator) programs are about as random as the order that the days of the week fall. Not only are they not random, but the sites admit that they make the games looser for a more exciting experience. If the cards were random they feel the games would be boring and fewer people would play. As I said before (im the one who bought the programs and have been very successful with them), the sites even have players they pay to play who know what cards are in play. If you are seeking purity, stay away from online poker rooms and play live poker.
