You Decide #39
Tuesday, July 11, 2006
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the greatest spectacle on Earth: the Idiocy at 1/2 Limit Hold'em! Today's You Decide is a fun look at sticking to one's read, regardless of that feeling of terror.
So, I'm sitting in a 1/2 Limit game, since I've been on a decline in my bankroll. It's a six-seater and some of the players are a bit manic. Muzzy, in particular, seems to like to bet out a lot, and has shown down some weak hands (like pocket 6s betting all the way with an AKQ flop). I am down $10 or so. I play a hand almost to the river and then have to let go. I know that I probably appear to be weak and fishing. The next hand, I'm dealt AQo in the BB. UTG calls, Muzzy (UTG+1) calls. The other players fold to me. I check. Why not raise? I don't know, really. I knew that my AQ would be disguised. I also didn't have anything particularly strong preflop and I knew that they would call. It was that type of table.
The flop was 6c Tc 3s. I check and UTG checks. Muzzy bets. I call. The flop were all rags, and while he may have played AT, 67s or 34s, I didn't think he had anything much at this point. Basically, it seemed like an obvious position bet, and I figured that a call would slow him down or allow me to catch my Ace or Queen.
The turn was 8s. With another ragged card, I checked. Muzzy bet $2. Here, I seriously considered folding. But my initial read was that he was on a position bet, and if he was on a position bet, I knew that he was too loose not to keep playing at the hand. I called.
Finally, the river was another 8. Here is where it gets tricky. I check. He bets. It's the same thing as the turn. If he IS bluffing, then he is only going to continue bluffing, for the most part. Remember, I had been playing fairly weak within the last few hands, laying down to river bets. On top of this, Muzzy was an aggressive player, and in his position, who wouldn't position bet (although the continuation position betting on the turn AND river scared me). There was $7 in the pot and I had to call $2. I called. He had KJo, and I picked up the pot.
Now, the results went well. I remember when I clicked "Call" I was thinking that I was throwing away money. I mean, this was a real crying call. But I had a read, and I stuck to it. In the end, I was right, but I am positive I could have played this hand better (possibly on every street) to have made the hand easier on me. What do you think? Don't be shy.
posted by Jordan @ 10:58 PM,
- At 12:20 PM, C.L. Russo said...
Finally! Limit! I can discuss limit!
Foist, I would've raised pre-flop. AQo is not that weak, especially short-handed in an unraised pot. Also, there's the, albeit unlikely, chance you might get one or both opponents to fold.
You don't mention the suites of your cards, but I'll assume they aren't clubs.
Post-flop, I'd consider that you have 4 outs- 2 aces (Ac does you no good), and 1.5 queens (again Qc hurts, and a king could put you behind.) I'll throw in a charity .5 for the possibility of a runner runner straight.
After Muzzy bets on the turn, you're only getting 4 to 1 in a situation where you need 10 to 1 to make a profitable call.
I'd fold this hand and not shed a tear.
- At 12:43 PM, WillWonka said...
I think you played the hand a little wimpy. If you have reads, go for them.
First off, raise with AQ in shorthanded game. Yes, they are probably going to call. That's what you want... a bigger pot with your good hands.
Later you have a read on a very aggressive player. You are kind of sitting on the fence here. In my book, it is a fold or a raise. If you believe he is just "position" betting then raise, raise, raise. If not, folding is never a bad option.
As our published friend says... put the pressure and decision on him.
Is it possible he then folds. Yep; but every hand you win without showdown is to your advantage as they don't know what you had.
Again, what do I know. This is just my humble opinion.
- At 1:23 PM, MrGoss said...
I am ok with your play up to the river. I would like to have seen you raise after the bet by Muzzy. This would either get a lay-down of the bluff or a call which gets you more $$$, or a re-reraise that again puts the decision on you.
The thing is that a re-raise looks like a slow play and gives you a big advantage for future action against this guy.
I really like that you stuck with your read. I've had a problem doing that myself lately.
- At 1:44 PM, Chi_Town said...
The only thing I can say is that if you had a read (and believe it the way you did), you should have bet out, or check-raised on the flop or at least the turn... If you were going to call all the way on that read, it would be better to "play" on that read and put him to the test. Your read could have been correct, just to see a K or J hit the river. If your read was wrong, and play on the flop gives you some info on where you are at.
Lastly, if you felt he agreed that you table image was weak, betting out or check-raising would have looked like a real hand and maybe got him to lay-down (you checked out of the BB and literally could of had any two cards).
- At 2:08 PM, pokerpeaker said...
Agreed, dude, but I love to blame Republicans for everything.
Do you have a backup plan? Do we even need one given that Neteller is overseas. Thanks for stopping by, you've got a good blog.
- At 2:09 PM, pokerpeaker said...
By the way, raise him after the turn or the flop. Raising gives you a good idea where you are. IF he calls, you can check-call.
- At 4:49 PM, Drizztdj said...
Check-raise the turn, if you get three-bet you can fold.
Lead at the river if called on the turn. If you had a "read" then go with it, don't let him control the action.
- At 10:04 PM, HighOnPoker said...
I think most of the comments have been correct. Just one question. Is there any value to playing passively here? Doesn't it allow me to say, "ok, he's bluffing, but just in case, i'm willing to spend another $4 only (calls on turn and river)"?
I think whoever mentioned allowing him to river a K or J has the best response to this question, but is there ANY value in passive play? Just a thought.
- At 10:38 PM, C.L. Russo said...
In my opinion, it's only going forward with this hand if you feel you can take down the pot right away.
The size of the pot can help you decide this. The higher the pot, the less chance your opponent's going to fold.
Also, it's only worth committing to the turn and river bets ahead of time if the pot is large.
In this situation, since the pot is small and you missed the flop, I don't think it would be worth it to continue.
Where you lose money is running with bad hands too far. Muzzy is the perfect example. All he could beat was a bluff, but he never got the hint.
- At 9:05 AM, Chi_Town said...
I can understand the logic behind just checking it down to prevent from losing too much in case your read is wrong, BUT you can spend the same amount ($4) on the flop and turn if you check-raise the flop and bet out on the turn... Then you have taken control of the hand, put the decision on him, give yourself a lot more chances to win the pot and protect yourself from being rivered...
I have played passively myself, sometimes, it can creep into your state of mind... but really, I would say the correct play (despite ones capacity to execute it) is to be the aggressor. But like I said, I know that pulling the trigger can be tough.